Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: You guys, stop.
Is it mom o' clock yet? I'm going crazy.
[00:00:08] Speaker C: Heck, yeah. It's mom o' clock somewhere.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: It's Mama clock.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: We're back.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: And I just want to start by saying today's segment's going to be a little bit different.
We are. And this is a little bit of a trigger warning. We're going to talk a lot about mental health, toxic relationships, and a lot of trauma. And it's all going to stem from the new docu series on Netflix called Crash.
And we're gonna get into it. If you haven't watched it and you don't want it spoiled, skip this episode. But if you don't feel like watching it, you can get some facts from here.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: So, like, we talk straight facts.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: We talk straight facts. Although I have my notes right here.
Okay, so it's a docu series, right?
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Okay.
All right. It's not that long. It's like an hour and a half.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: But it is a. It's a lot to take in.
And if you know nothing about it, I'm gonna run through a little bit of the background of the story.
It's obviously a documentary, so it's real life. This really happened. These are real people. And I just have to start by saying my heart goes out to everybody involved.
I mean, it's a lot to take in. So just buckle the up.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: I mean, it was. It's crazy.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: It's crazy. Okay, so obviously this episode, we're not gonna make it so much about true crime. We're gonna make it more about toxic relationships, warning signs, Mom. Ms. Moms that Ms. Mental health. Just like social media pressure. Just like all the things at that age that you go through.
They're in high school.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah, they're in high school. So you get to see the side of the stuff that, I mean, we don't see. We're moms of little babies, so.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: But it's also this day and age.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: I can imagine moms of older kids that are going through high school with social media, what goes on and how
[00:01:59] Speaker A: one moment can Destroy multiple families. One or multiple families.
So this documentary follows the 2022 crash where Mackenzie Cirilla drove into a building at nearly 100 miles per hour, killing her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and friend Davion Flanagan. So the prosecutor argued it was intentional, while the defense claimed it was an accident tied to a medical issue and trauma.
Bullshit. Bullshit. So. Such bullshit.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: And she was sentenced in 2023 with two concurrent sentences of 15 years to life. And in 15 years, she's eligible for
[00:02:40] Speaker A: parole, which she's absolutely going to get denied. But listen, we're going to just talk facts and also splur out our opinions because how can we not.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: And this was all based in Ohio.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Yes, this was all based in Ohio. Correct. So let's just get into, you know, just the fact why we're talking about this, because I feel like you as a mom, you just imagine your own child and this happening to your own child, whether you're on either side.
[00:03:06] Speaker B: I mean, every side is horrifying.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: The whole, whole thing is horrifying.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: But I like how the documentary really like dove deep into the social media world that MacKenzie was in. So she was like, I don't know,
[00:03:17] Speaker A: she was friends with Tick tockers. She wanted to be a Tick Tocker. She wanted to be a model. She wanted to do the social media thing that this day and age calls for. Right? And it showed that. And I, I know a lot of the prosecutor side showed a lot of her tick tocks, which I appreciated. And some things were a little far fetched, like, but some things made sense, like, why are you dressing up as a corpse couple months after you were sentenced to.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: That was fucked up.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: And putting it on social media because you want to live your life like no normal human being with remorse would do that.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: So the prosecutor showed that there were so many things, so many things that were not normal about the situation. But I have to say the most jarring thing was when they were interviewing her parents.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: Jarring, like, are they in a different dimension?
[00:04:03] Speaker B: So they were interviewing her parents and the parents. One thing that really stuck out to me was like they were trying to not even defend her, but like they were like trying to talk about it and they were like, about saying she
[00:04:15] Speaker A: does no wrong, right?
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Like, and, but about the actual accident. They were saying like the mom said something like, yeah, he was. Damien was a new friend.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: When she made her speech in the courthouse.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Who the fuck cares if it was a new friend? Old friend, stranger on the street. Your daughter killed somebody.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: I don't know anything about her. Sorry. So he was, she was like, I'm sorry, I can't speak. Speak on him. He was a new friend.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: New friend.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: What does that have the. The judge literally said, so does that take away.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: And then she was like, backtrack. Her words was like, no, no, I didn't mean that.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Yeah, like now you saw.
What did the judge say? She was like, so do the other.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Does that not.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Does that not matter because you don't know him, right? No, so anyway, let's just talk about how the fact that it's horrifying story from both sides.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Both sides.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: And even like the loss of the victim's family. Like the loss of the victims from both families.
And just from start to finish, let's just get into it.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:05:17] Speaker A: Okay. Because sometimes the viewers watching may not know anything about the crash.
[00:05:21] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: Literally, the crash, that's the name of the show or the documentary. So as you know, like, this could happen to anybody. This could happen tomorrow. This could happen in a couple weeks. This could happen to anybody walking the streets.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Right. And the documentary starts off with real footage of the police officers on site. And the crash they said, was the most horrific they've ever seen scene they've ever seen. The car was split into two. Okay. There was three people in the car. Mackenzie, her boyfriend and her friend. Mackenzie was driving and she was jammed underneath the. Underneath the steering wheel, like, stuck. And the two boys were just deceased on site.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Dead on arrival. And they were on top of each other in the front seat. So they must have either broke through the seatbelt, I assume, because it was such a heavy, hard impact, or they weren't wearing their seatbelts, I'm not sure.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: But the whole thing is the crashes when they were doing their investigation.
So they pulled cameras. Obviously there's cameras everywhere, but there wasn't a camera exactly right where the crash happened, but there was a camera like five seconds before. And. And you just see this car going 98 miles per hour down the street, zooming straight into a building. It sounded like an explosion.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: Just.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: And it sounded like those cars you hear on the street.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: That. You're like, oh, my God, that hurts my ears. Yeah.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: And then like a bomb.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: And then a bomb.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: So let's just start by saying the relationship.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: So we said Mackenzie and Dominic are dating. Rocky, Toxic. Davion was a new friend. Right. He was playing football. He got hurt, so he started hanging out with a new group of friends, which happens to be Dominic and Davion's crew. There's a bunch of other people involved.
A social media girly, you know, her boyfriend, she was.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: She stuck strong.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: She pissed me the fuck off, I'll tell you that much. I can't. What's her name?
[00:07:11] Speaker B: I don't know her name, but she has 280,000 followers. Yeah. Now probably a million.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So anyway, the.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: But the emotional instability in their relationship of. Of Mackenzie and Dominic, you can just tell just by, like, what she posts. I mean, there was. There was videos of them fighting. Like, I just don't know, like, if my child was. Childhood was so different. But, like, I didn't talk like that to, like, Rosie.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: Rosie, Graham.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Rosie.
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Literally Rosie. Graham.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: But the way she talked to her boyfriend, the way, like, she just.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: I mean, we're going out of order a little bit. But the relationship obviously was toxic, unhealthy. There was voiceovers saying, if you don't open this door right now, I'm gonna burn down your house and kill you and your family. Then there was him saying, like, leave me, Al.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Like, so he called his mom.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Called his mom for help. Like, there was so many sides to the story. But it does start off. And I don't know if you feel the same way, kind of siding with Mackenzie. You kind of. You felt bad for her. You're like, I want.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: They wanted to do that 100%.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: You want her to be okay.
[00:08:16] Speaker C: You.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: You want to feel bad for her. You want her to have a different life because you could tell she doesn't come from a good life.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: I mean, something. Something switched in the documentary for me. Like, at first I had the feeling, because I didn't know the whole story at first, where they kind of, like, dissect into her social media, like, world, where it starts out where, like, oh, wow, she's. She's a cute girl. She has a nice boyfriend. It's like, you feel bad for her.
[00:08:39] Speaker A: You're just like, she definitely is striving to be somebody, but it's really hard for her. She's definitely mentally unwell, but obviously, how can you not feel bad for somebody like that, Right? Yeah, but you ask these questions. These. This is what the questions I was asking myself while I was watching the documentary, which makes me feel uncomfortable. Is she mentally ill? Right. Was she manipulative? Was she emotionally spiraling? Could, you know, things have changed the outcome? Right. And you just feel like the documentary starts like that, and then it takes a whole turn. You're like, fuck, no. This bitch deserves prison time.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it really goes back to, like, just the mom. Like, maybe she was in denial, but, like, I'm just talking about. For me, like, I hope to God if I ever. If Vienna, obviously I have a daughter. If she's ever in a situation where, like, I know her mental health is.
Something is just not right. Like, as a mother, like, I would know, and I wouldn't let her drive a car. I wouldn't let her do any of the things that a normal person could be doing when. If she's mentally Sick.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: I agree with you.
So much so that if, like, I almost think my son is guilty until proven innocent. Like, I swear to God, I'm like, did you do this?
I'm not. That I'm not on his side because I will stand by him through and through, but if my son does something wrong, he does something wrong, and that's that. Like, I'm not in denial. I'm aware that there's right and wrong.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Like, I will never sit there and
[00:10:08] Speaker B: be like, a hundred percent. But also, you were not.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: You did not pass out at the wheel and not take your foot off the brake and drive straight into a building at 100 miles per hour. Not on purpose. So what the fuck is going on?
[00:10:20] Speaker B: I know, but then I agree with that wholeheartedly, too. But also, then you have to really think and just really put yourselves in the shoes. Like, okay, so your daughter actually did this, and she killed her boyfriend and her friend, and now she's going to jail forever, and you're not going to see her again out in the world.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: I know.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: On your lifetime. So. So I understand the mama bear trying to protect her daughter, but, like, you
[00:10:43] Speaker A: also can't be in denial that there's right and there's wrong.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Right. Well, if I were them, I would. I would have scratched the whole medical issue of thing. I would say she needs mental health awareness. She needs to go into a facility and get help.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: She needs help. Like, my. Like, you're just. You're not so much in a. Like, I get the mama bear. Like, I don't know what I would do in this situation if it was actually me, God forbid, because I probably would be super protective. And, like, you know, I get defensive. Absolutely. But I would get defensive and be like, she needs help. She's not okay. She's not even saying that. Her mom is not even saying she's not okay. She's saying she didn't do it.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: She just didn't do it. Right. That's what really irks me.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: I would be like, not. She's not okay.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, no normal person is driving so fast into a building on purpose.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: I'm sorry. If they just gave me text messages and voiceovers, I would say she would drive 100 miles per hour into a building and try to kill people.
But she's. She didn't realize that she was gonna live.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: That's the thing.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: I mean, the worst thing in the whole world is trying to commit suicide and failing. Right?
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Because then you have to live with the correct.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: So I Just feel like the biggest thing of this all is obviously teen relationships are emotionally intense. Like, they're toxic. Your first heartbreak, your first obsession, your attachment, your first rejection, jealousy, all those things. Like, it is so intense in high school because you're going through all these new emotions as a teen, and then you're so in love with somebody. You don't realize. Because when you're in love with somebody, you don't think, like, now, in this day and age, I'm in the future. Looking back, I would never think, like, I would say in that time frame, like, I'm gonna be with this person. I love this person. There was no future for me. Cause the key was my future or this thing, this situation was my future. I can't see myself in the future until I'm sitting in the future. So looking back, I'm like, how could I ever believe that I had no future that I have now?
[00:12:34] Speaker B: You know what I mean? I just think that their relationship was just very toxic. And you can just tell through all of her weird posts that she did.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, her. Just her. Her aroma. What's that word? Not aroma. Like the scent.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Her aura.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: Like, her aura.
Okay, this is not a joking manner, but I just feel like you're not able to be in a serious relationship in high school. I'm sorry. I know.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: So you think that teens are not equipped to be in a serious relationship?
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Not if it's toxic.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: If it's this type of situation, I think there's.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: There's obviously a spectrum of maturity levels of.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Correct. If it's the type of person you are.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Very immature.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: Like, I feel like she looked mature. She seemed like she was trying to. Like, she lived.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Trying. She lived with him.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: She got nice to him.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: That's not really mature. That's fake mature.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: No, she was trying, but she was trying to have an adult relationship where clearly she was struggling.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Trying.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: You know, so I just feel like, how do moms recognize unhealthy attachment? Like, what happens when kids tie their identity to one person? She clearly was doing that. Like, how do her parents not realize? Like, you're too young for this. That would be me.
Okay, so if my situation was like, you and Joey.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: And I have a friend from high school who was with somebody. Like, that was a mature relationship. They were bound to end up with each other. Whether they broke up, got into little arguments, hooked up with somebody, there was nothing toxic about it. You were going to end up with that person. And as a parent, I would be like, okay, Safe to say my daughter is going to end up with this kid.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Right?
[00:14:05] Speaker A: This.
Seeing all the. Right.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: There's a lot of red flags.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Facts and red flags. I would be like, you are delusional. You're not ending up with this kid. He doesn't even want to be with you and you can't be with him. You guys are mentally unwell together.
How do you as a mom not realize that?
[00:14:22] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: There has to be something unstable or unwell in your brain or you just think your daughter does no harm.
[00:14:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: She actually reminded me of the mom on the other documentary of the one that was the stalker.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: She was her own kids stalker.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:36] Speaker B: It's like that type of. You're not in touch with reality. You just like living through your daughter. You're that type of person. I mean, obviously she's probably unwell herself, but like, you can't. You gotta, you gotta get help for your kids.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: But this is where there's a line now. These moms are worried about drugs and alcohol and they're not worried about mental health.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: That was my. So my initial thought was there is no way this girl was sober during this crash.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: But she was.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: She was.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: They did all the mental health toxicology.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's real time. So.
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: I mean, she didn't take the mushrooms. Cause I could see that. Having a bad fucking mushroom trip, thinking you're driving into the sunset and you just zoom off and you're fucking driving into a building. That would make more sense to me. You fucking did a horrible trip on shrooms.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Your life is over still. But like that makes more sense.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: It was a bad decision. But you didn't do it on purpose to kill two people. You're a murderer.
Don't you claim her as a murderer. Oh, yeah, she killed two people on purpose. The prosecutor stated in his statement that there's a black box, they call it
[00:15:40] Speaker B: in a car, which I never knew existed. Oh my God. Wait, the funniest thing. So I was telling Joe about this documentary and I was like, do you know about the black box? He's like, yeah. And I was like, you know, it tells everything in five seconds.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Of what happened. And he's like, yes, Emily. That's like everything in engineering. And I'm like, I just learned about it.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: So it said 100. 100. 100. She was down on the pedal, no brake for the entire time. And then it said off when she hit the wall.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: There was also a.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Right. It said. It said 100 she was going. It was 100, 100. Meaning it was full. Pedal to the metal.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: There was never, ever a pedal.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Pedal to the metal. That's what that statement comes.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: Except for there was a neutral and a drive. And a drive. So they think one of the boys was trying to get into control to try to save them their lives.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: Clearly there was something happening. And then he talked about when they went around the turn, before they went down that road 100 miles per hour. It was very.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: What's the word he used? It was, like, very. Like, controlled.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Like.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Like something was gonna happen. Nobody who was unwell.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: She would have been like, you know,
[00:16:43] Speaker B: like, there was no erratic driving.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: There was a turn, a jerk to the right and left.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: So you had to really be in control of that road, of that vehicle. If you were of substance abuse or something, you wouldn't be able to do that.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Manic.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: You.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: I mean. Yeah.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: So I feel like, obviously, nobody talks enough about, like, the mental unstableness of a teenager, but I just don't think there's any excuse to get to that level. Like, it needs to be handled Prior.
And just because she's not portraying herself as, like, mental illness. Looks like a pretty picture, you know? And I just think. I can't even think of one excuse in my head. Cause you try. You're a human. You try to make up an excuse for Mackenzie, like, why did she do this? But, like, there's nothing you can say that will change my mind. That she didn't do that on purpose.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: No. And I. Like. So they circle back or they go forward to an interview in jail. So she's in jail.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: And she has full floor. She could tell the camera whatever she wants.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: And she had her lawyer present.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: She did. Yeah. And, I mean, because she never said she was guilty.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: She.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: She won't admit to it. She's still.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: She said she doesn't.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: She's banking on not remembering, blacking out and the pots.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: So this was the mental. This was the.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: No, not mental illness.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: Medical issue she claimed to have besides not remembering. She was diagnosed with POTS and prior to all of this. This is a disorder, an autoimmune disorder from the nervous system that basically makes
[00:18:15] Speaker B: you faint, blackout, all the things.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: So that's what she claims, that she had one of those episodes while driving the car, and that's why she didn't remember. But if that was the case, why wouldn't the other members in the car be able to, like, shift it into drive. I mean, shift it into park and, like, Stop the car.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Like, how does that work? Corey, do you know this? Like, if you're driving a car fast and you put it in park, will it actually go in park?
[00:18:43] Speaker B: No, you.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: I've always thought about that, though. It won't though, right?
[00:18:47] Speaker B: No, it won't, but it will slow
[00:18:49] Speaker A: down or a jerk or something.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: I don't know.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: It's a good question.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: I think that's why I went into neutral. I think it has to go into neutral and then maybe. Okay, because if you're going a certain miles per hour, how. Why could you just park it?
[00:19:01] Speaker A: Right, Correct.
So there's so many facts about this whole thing. And I feel like we laid it out for you in terms of, like, what the documentary consisted of. So it starts with. That starts with the crash. Right. And then it goes into MacKenzie's background, who she was, because the prosecutor wants get to know her.
Another weird thing is Rosie Graham wouldn't talk to the prosecutor. Like, why are you siding with this?
[00:19:23] Speaker B: And he was like, I found it really interesting that she talked to the Netflix channel.
[00:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: These are just the clout chasers.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: Cloud chasers. So anyway, then it gets into, like, Dominic's side of the story, which I'm so happy Dominic's mom spoke out.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Because obviously there was some shit going on. He was obviously telling his mom, like, I need help. I need to get out of this relationship. Then it goes into Mackenzie's, like, family
[00:19:41] Speaker B: side and how about Dominic's sister?
[00:19:43] Speaker A: No, stop.
Dominic's. No, Davion's sister, you mean.
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Oh, Davion's sister.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Dominic's sisters too. Was. Yeah, the show. But yeah.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Oh, but I did like her too.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Yeah, she was good. But she even said Dominic's family sided with Mackenzie when this first started, after all the facts came out, they were like, what the actual fuck?
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah. How do we not realize it is crazy? Because I feel not. Things like this don't happen all the time. No, but like, an accident can happen. Like an accident can happen and then like, okay, you just go on with your life if nobody is guilty of.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: Right, right. I mean, it's just a trap. It's like a tragedy.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: People have to go on. You can't move on when somebody is. Is alive that committed the crime and is pleading not guilty. Like, they want justice.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: And they got it by what you said.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: She's serving 30 years. 15 and 15 and 15. And then parole after 15 years. She was.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: So this is like where my heart comes in. Like, I Do think she should be in prison for a very long time. But I think she needs like professional mental health.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: It doesn't mean she needs to get out of prison.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Maybe not, but like, I mean she's a young girl. Like she's just like she's going to be 80 years old and just die in prison.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: But that's the point. Like I think like this is what Dominic's sister said. Fifty years, which hit me because I feel the same way. I have a heart.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: I.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: You can't help but watch this documentary and just feel bad.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Also she was charged. She was only 17, but she was
[00:21:08] Speaker A: charged as 18 because her birthday was like the next week. But my point is like I'm a human being.
[00:21:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:13] Speaker A: And so are you. And you watch this documentary, you try to come up with every excuse in the book for Mackenzie. You just do right as a human.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: But.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: Yeah, but there's not. But I just feel like Dominic's sister made a point. She said in the documentary, she said, so she gets out of prison. 15, 30 years is nothing.
She gets out of prison, she can live a happy life after that. She doesn't deserve to live that.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yes, she does.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: She can. She's only 18 years old. 30 years.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Do the math.
48.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: So say it's 20.
So say it's like 48. 47.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: She has her whole life. She can live a happy life with the family if she wanted. When she gets out of prison. That's not fair for the other families. Think about if you were the victim.
Think about if your son got killed.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: No.
[00:22:01] Speaker A: What would you want? Don't think about Mackenzie.
What would you want? You would want her to rot, would you not?
[00:22:07] Speaker B: Probably.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean it's. It's so sad. It really is so sad.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: I just feel strong about that. I just think about the victim because they're the one that actually lost somebody.
[00:22:17] Speaker B: I really.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: Kenzie's still alive.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: I want Mackenzie to admit that she just went.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: But the best part is in prison, someone came out on tick tock. She was like, I was in prison with her. She's walking around like her don't sting.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's, that's what's the most you
[00:22:29] Speaker A: could tell when she came to the table during the documentary in prison, she had me and my sister in law go, where'd she get mascara?
[00:22:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Where'd you get makeup?
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Like she had a hooker hoops on. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:22:40] Speaker B: She glued her.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: She glued her like flyaways down.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: So another question is, could this happen to any Family, Correct?
Yes.
Yes and no. Like, I truly stand by. Like, if you raise your kids a certain way, they're not going to turn out to be silly.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: But there's also warning signs.
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah, there's warning signs.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: I mean, there's absolutely warning signs. Emotional obsession, isolation, impulsive behavior. Like, the mom said she had a mouth on her, which doesn't make you have bad behavior, but there's a difference between having a mouth and, like, seeing it come out from within. You just see it. Right. Depression masks an attitude. Right. So sometimes you have an attitude at all times of the day. Like she did. You heard it in her voice. Mass depression, emotional high and lows, manipulative behavior, how she treated Dominic. That's all warning signs. How did you.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: How do you not see it? The night before the crash. So they had, like a sleepover.
[00:23:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: And she. They left. They left the sleepover house at, like 5am Right. That's when the crash happened.
And there was two other friends that stayed at the house and they weren't in the car. And they. They are thick as thieves of not saying what went down at that sleepover. Like, some. Something must have happened where they left at 5:00am well, no, they just left because they had. They were getting up in the morning to do their day. But something must have. Like. Like. Well, they didn't. They said. They said they didn't take the shrooms, which they didn't. But I feel like something. Like what? Like Mackenzie and Dominic probably got into, like, an epic fight or something. Like, I feel like it just didn't happen out of nowhere.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Like. So another thing that was. I was curious about was Rosie, Graham's boyfriend, was really close with Davion.
[00:24:17] Speaker C: Mm.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: And Davion was going home with him
[00:24:20] Speaker B: right from the jump. Right.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: That was. That was the thing.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Then it made a quick turn. He just said, love you, which he's never done, and hugged him, which he's never done before, and hopped in the car with Dominic and Mackenzie. And the boyfriend was like. That was really weird of him to do because he was coming home with me. He was gonna help me with my truck later on in the day.
Like, there's so many things we just won't know.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: We won't know. Yeah. And you can dissect anything. Anything.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: There's so many theories. Right.
I just feel like.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: I feel. So.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Sometimes the scariest thing is realizing a child can be deeply struggling while smiling at dinner, and you don't wanna believe it. I guess that was the case with Mackenzie's mom. I mean, but are we making an excuse for her by saying she was mentally unil. Or she just, like, maybe she just was a bad person, I mean, and wanted to harm somebody for. For them, wanted to leave her? I mean, there's psychos out there. That's why the word is psychopath.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: 100%. So that could be too. But I. I don't want to make light of, like, she really could have been mentally ill. No, I mean, that
[00:25:20] Speaker A: was the only thing I can think that could be.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: I mean, it's the only logical thing.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: Right. But I just feel like every family lost something. The victim's mothers, Mackenzie's mother, the guilt mothers carry, wondering what could have they done differently? The friends. Everybody is carrying something from the situation.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: You know?
[00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And just like losing a child, it's just like.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: That's the fear.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: And I just feel like, can a mother fully know what her child is capable of? Like, let me just take you to the phone calls. Now that Mackenzie's in prison, right? Her mom has a phone call. I kind of want to play it.
[00:25:56] Speaker C: Hello?
Hey. I got my pod moved. Shut up. Yes. Are you on your new pod right now? Yes, I got it moved last night during Red Zone. I got my pod moved. I love playing my new pod. I love it. I got a roommate. I got a roommate. Hey, man, that's cool as fuck. Yes. Check yourself. Mm. Okay, that's good. So let me tell daddy. She had her pod moved. She doesn't have a window where she can see outside anymore, but she hits a roommate. And her roommate is cool as fuck. She loved it. She got moved last night. Tell me why I got in the pod. And they're like, ah, seeing you on the news, that's embarrassing as fuck. And they was laughing at me.
What'd they say?
Why were they laughing?
I don't know. They just seen me on the news, and they was laughing at me, dog. Miss Baby, she wrote me this letter, and it was so sad, and she was like.
And then she said something that I like. It took this accident to make me realize, like, she Bibi. The one girl that, like, Belinda. Oh, so she wrote you?
Yeah, she wrote me a little letter. And like, she was like, if people smiling at you, at least she said something about, like, people smiling at you don't mean they're on your side or something like that. I have to read it. And it took me, like, a long time to realize that. Realize What?
Cause, like, Ms. Russo would smile on my face and, like, clearly she has ill attention.
Sorry.
She did more than smile.
Yes. What are people saying on the news?
It's divided, cuz. It's divided. Like, really? A lot of people.
Yeah, a lot of people think you should have gotten, you know, life without the trolls, the Internet trolls, and the evil people. Right? I think you should. The evil people, you know, basically for all of your life, forever more, ever.
Then there's people saying, I'm just. Sorry, I'm not okay with that. This just is weird and it doesn't add up. And I'm not okay with sending somebody for life for this. Blah, blah, blah. Then there's other people saying, you know, I know.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: Let me just add. There's another part that I want to show you. But let me just add. There are people on the Internet that are saying, free Mackenzie.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: Oh, really?
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a whole side. I mean, not a lot, but people are saying, like, it's not fair that she got. And I understand. Like, people are humans, right? They make this. It's like, not a mistake.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: This is where you have to talk about accountability versus empathy. Mackenzie Shrilla and her mother speaking on a prison phone call and Mackenzie speaking some type of gibberish to her mom.
[00:28:19] Speaker C: Watch. Right? Yes.
[00:28:23] Speaker A: I'm gonna find The Daily Mail 1. Hold on.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: It was published in England. What?
Yes.
World News.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: World News.
[00:28:33] Speaker C: I think the Daily Mail just publishes it in all their publications. But, yeah, the uk.
It's on the Daily Mail in uk. Maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself. That's what I'm saying. I'm hoping. I'm hoping we're getting there. It was published in England.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: This is what makes me think that she's just doing it.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: So this is.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: No, no. She's just like a psychopath killer.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I feel like you feel bad, right? Your heart feels it. But then I feel like you don't do a deep enough dive to see that. Like, she's having a phone call in prison and her mom is laughing. The fact that on Daily News, they think that's crazy cool, and it almost makes you feel like they're doing all this for clout, like they want. Not that they did it for clout, but I'm saying they're excited. The fact that they're being published, that I would be horrified.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: I have the chills because I'm just. I'm really trying to put myself in these people's shoes. Vienna's in prison, okay? She did it.
I would visit her. I would. I. I'd be hysterically. Crying the entire time. She'd probably be. Hopefully be.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: I was like, how did my daughter get like this?
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Like, I would never have a normal conversation. Not even normal. I would never have a conversation like that ever.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Ever. That's what I'm trying to show you. Like, I just feel like these were their conversations in prison. Maybe Kim Kardashian will pick us up. Kim literally spoke out, was like, I'm passing on that. Like, she only releases innocent people from jail. You ain't innocent, honey. Like, you know what I mean? I just feel like. Back to your point of mental illness.
I feel. I feel that. I'm sorry. Like, mental illness is. Is something that should be talked about more because there's so many people struggling. But as a parent, is your job to notice these things? That is why you have children, to help them through life, to guide them.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
I.
I can't.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Can you, like, let me just ask you something. Can you have empathy for someone and still hold them accountable?
Yes. Yeah, totally.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: Let me ask you something else. Does trauma explain behavior?
[00:30:33] Speaker B: Trauma explained behavior. I think it might alter your behavior. Yeah. I agree. Your decisions maybe.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: Right. The people you hang around with.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: But murder, like, two people are no longer here. That's where I can't wrap my head around it. As a mom, I'm. Yeah. You're talking about the side of your daughter in prison, but what about the side of the.
Your kid being gone forever?
[00:30:58] Speaker B: No.
Yeah. I can't even fathom what those families feel like.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: No.
[00:31:08] Speaker B: And just the way MacKenzie is on social media says it all to me.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: So social media is a hell of a drug.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: It really is.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Because.
[00:31:18] Speaker A: And I feel like it's getting worse. And listen, that's why I feel so strongly about what I'm doing on social media, because I'm trying to be true and who I am. And what you see on socials is what you get in person.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: But, like, I just saw videos on TikTok of a girl being, like, doesn't look like her influence or influencer video that she just posted. Like, why do you want to be that? I also think, like, just you're influencing the wrong way and the wrong people.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: But even. Even the age. Age is a factor. Like, if you're in high school, like, I don't think your whole world should be trying to be an influencer on TikTok. Like, you should be a kid. Yeah. And be able to live a life where you're not always on your phone, always checking, always think people. I. I've Hung out with teenagers. They're like, how many. How many followers do you have? Like, that's like a con. That's like, that makes me. That's like the first thing they would ask me.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Sick.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: Like, and I feel how many followers do I have? Yeah. I don't know.
[00:32:11] Speaker A: Why is that a thing? And I feel like that's where the. That's why people are so strong without the iPads. Like, I hate walking into a house and you're on your iPad. Like, why are you on your iPad? Like, I just feel like it's one thing bringing out to dinner and like occupying with a show, but like giving your kid an iPad all day long, like it just is setting them up to want to do this.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: And like want to go the social media route and want to talk about their friends, about their following. Like it just. It's just the time. We live in iPads. Back in the day probably wouldn't have been that way. They weren't.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: No. And moms actually nowadays, they're doing a. It's like a. I pledge. It's like. So think about it. If one kid in the class, the grade gets a phone. Right. And everyone else wants a phone. So moms are pledging at like, I won't give my. They're signing petitions. I won't give my phone. My son a phone until 11 years old, 12 years old. And then they get. They get a lot of parents and then like that class, that's an amazing class that they don't have phones yet. So. But I mean, it's hard to pass because it's per town too. But it's like doing it near us.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: Like local.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Like I saw my town was doing it. Yeah. But I mean it's.
Well, I don't have kids of age yet.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: But that's such cool.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: That's a lot to think about because then also like if your kids taking the bus or as practice, like you want them to be able to call you. So it's like I had a phone
[00:33:27] Speaker A: in third grade because I dance and I need to call my mom. Right.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: So there's like a fine line. But also they. They have like those watches. Like I feel like there's ways to not have an actual phone that has. Right.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Like sometimes parents want to keep up with the trend. That kid has a phone, my kid needs a phone.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: Right. And you can have a phone. But I think giving them access to YouTube, to TikTok, like that's a whole new world. Like your. Your kid could have a phone to Call to text to maybe do, like, YouTube kids or something. I don't know. But, like, having access to the entire World Wide Web is so scary to me. Like, you could Google one thing and then you're in the black market of, like, oh, yeah, watching, I don't know,
[00:34:08] Speaker A: scary shit, people being murdered.
No, seriously. You're so right. But I did want to ask you, because we were just talking about this. Like, where do you think the line between mental health and responsibility falls? Because that's what we were just talking about. Like, you blame it on mental health. Like, my daughter needs help. She needs help.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Right?
[00:34:23] Speaker A: Like, where does the line get crossed when it's responsible?
Right.
[00:34:29] Speaker B: No, I.
[00:34:30] Speaker A: Where does mental health get thrown out the window when you did this?
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Right.
That's a good question. But I think.
I mean, you need.
I think there's, like, you said, like, there's. You need tools along the way to help you and, like, warning signs. Warning signs. Like, it doesn't just, like, happen. Like, I think. I think a lot of people missed it in this. In this case, like, the friends could have said something. The parents could have said something. Even if the mom of the boyfriend talked sooner about that incident that she had when her son called and was like, mom, I need to get out. Like, she probably didn't tell many people about that. She's telling people the aftermath of it.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Then there was something that came out that. So you know how in the story it tells that Dominic texted his mom like, she's crazy. Help me. But there's also text messages. Mackenzie to Dominic's mom, come get him.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Right?
[00:35:20] Speaker A: He's acting crazy.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Like, you never know.
[00:35:21] Speaker A: It's like people can. I can make up a text message. Yeah. ChatGPT can make up a screenshot of text.
[00:35:26] Speaker B: And that's why this world is so fucked up, too, because you can't believe anything you see.
[00:35:30] Speaker A: You can't. And honestly, just, like, some ending thoughts that I wrote down because I just feel like it was important to say, like, this documentary isn't just about a crash, right? It's about emotional instability, parenting fears, heartbreak, impulsive decisions, and how quickly lives can change. And as moms, we can't control every choice our kid makes, right? But we try to create homes where emotions are just talked about, like we said in our previous episode are talks about. So emotions are talked about, you know, in our homes and not just exploded. Right, In a fucking fatal car crash.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: No. And he's.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: Something was missed.
[00:36:12] Speaker B: Yeah, something was missed. And you can tell just by the family, like, something's not right.
[00:36:17] Speaker A: Yeah, but the way they're talking, in
[00:36:18] Speaker B: the way they're talking.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: I mean, you just heard those voices. It's like those phone calls.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, you can tell, but, like, parents need to do better, friends need to do better.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Like, I would never be the friend. Listen, I'm a ride or die. But I will never go against what's right or wrong.
[00:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:33] Speaker A: To Rosie, especially with people involved.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Let's get her on. You want to get Rosie?
[00:36:38] Speaker A: Can you imagine Rosie?
[00:36:39] Speaker B: Graham?
[00:36:40] Speaker A: I just feel like there's. There's. Listen, but we're talking about her.
[00:36:44] Speaker B: That's what she wants.
[00:36:44] Speaker A: That's what she said.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: She's giving her what she wants.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I just feel like there's no. There's no. You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. You speak out, people hate you. You don't speak out, people hate you. It's just like. But you got to do the right thing. You always got to do the right thing. I will tell my kids till the day I die if you're around something, you know, no snitches, we don't need to be snitching, running, telling mommy. Right. We're not doing that. I didn't grow up like that. But. But if it's wrong, you recognize right, and you recognize wrong. You see something in front of you that is going to cause danger to you or that person or somebody else. You say something or you do something or you tell somebody.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: And I think that's the only thing we can instill in our children as they grow up and get older. Like, we. We could be helicopter moms all we want, but, like, they are gonna grow up and they are gonna make decisions, gonna make decisions, and, you know, you just have to really hope that you put enough fear in them that they will do the right thing. And, I don't know, talk. Just talk to them.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: Talk to your kids. Communication. That's huge.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: Okay. So this was a little segment on a documentary on Netflix, if you're interested in watching it. It's.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: It wasn't interesting. I don't know. Sometimes I don't love documentaries because. Oh, I'm just scared of the world in general. But it was a good one. It was interesting. I like the way they showed all the sides.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:01] Speaker B: I'm sure there'll be another one about something else happening. I feel like. Or they'll film her in prison, something.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: It's probably going to be a documentary.
Okay, well, thanks for joining us. I know this was a lot to take in, but I hope you enjoyed and just always do the right thing.
[00:38:15] Speaker B: Mama out.
[00:38:16] Speaker A: Love you. Bye.
